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	<title>Comments on: Who needs facts? These vaccine conspiracy pieces write themselves…</title>
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	<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/</link>
	<description>A grumpy scientist writes</description>
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		<title>By: physicsmum</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-2523</link>
		<dc:creator>physicsmum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-2523</guid>
		<description>And so it continues.......

We recently had a presentation here in Calgary entitled &quot;Vaccine Clarity - get the facts&quot;, given by some sort of &quot;doctor&quot;, and quite well attended.  You can imagine what kind of &quot;facts&quot; were presented, and the net result is that no one who attended this event is going to get the H1N1 vaccine which has just become available here.  (I did not go, just heard about it on the news after the fact)

With stuff like this going on, what is the average person to think??
Someone said on the radio that all the conflicting information is very confusing, but the real problem is all the misinformation!  Plus the fact that so many people don&#039;t trust the medical establishment, all very worrying.........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And so it continues&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>We recently had a presentation here in Calgary entitled &#8220;Vaccine Clarity &#8211; get the facts&#8221;, given by some sort of &#8220;doctor&#8221;, and quite well attended.  You can imagine what kind of &#8220;facts&#8221; were presented, and the net result is that no one who attended this event is going to get the H1N1 vaccine which has just become available here.  (I did not go, just heard about it on the news after the fact)</p>
<p>With stuff like this going on, what is the average person to think??<br />
Someone said on the radio that all the conflicting information is very confusing, but the real problem is all the misinformation!  Plus the fact that so many people don&#8217;t trust the medical establishment, all very worrying&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Measles - spot the worrying trend (Updated) &#171; Dr Aust&#8217;s Spleen</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Measles - spot the worrying trend (Updated) &#171; Dr Aust&#8217;s Spleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>[...] And unvaccinated adults can get measles, and the nasty consequences, too. As I said in an earlier post, Mrs Dr Aust treated a few seriously ill adult cases like this in her days in hospital acute [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And unvaccinated adults can get measles, and the nasty consequences, too. As I said in an earlier post, Mrs Dr Aust treated a few seriously ill adult cases like this in her days in hospital acute [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grand Rounds 4:38 &#124; mumps</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>Grand Rounds 4:38 &#124; mumps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-506</guid>
		<description>[...] From Dr Aust about Vaccine Conspiracy Theorists. (Not from Grand Rounds, just something I read earlier in the year, here is an article from the New York Times about the resurgence of measles and other PREVENTABLE diseases with potentially devastating consequences. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] From Dr Aust about Vaccine Conspiracy Theorists. (Not from Grand Rounds, just something I read earlier in the year, here is an article from the New York Times about the resurgence of measles and other PREVENTABLE diseases with potentially devastating consequences. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: draust</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>draust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-462</guid>
		<description>Thanks all for the kind comments. And special thanks to &lt;b&gt;Rob Hinkley&lt;/b&gt; for the link to his excellent first-hand report of the Kirby UK visitation. 

I think those of us in the UK should be thankful our Kirby-tation was so low key. As a contrast, check out &lt;a href=&quot;//acandidworld.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/vaccineautism-alarmists-on-the-march-nyu-law/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this thread&lt;/a&gt;, where a US law student blogger made some comments about Kirby being invited to appear at his (New York University) Law School later this month. All the anti-vaccine gang show up like a flock of vultures, including Clifford G. Miller, John Stone and American “daily chelation for everything!” uber-nutcase John Best Jr. The rabid-ness of this lot never ceases to amaze me. One of the minor delights of the thread, for seasoned anti-vaccine-loony watchers, is to see John Best Jr &lt;a href=&quot;http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/vaccineautism-alarmists-on-the-march-nyu-law/#comment-892&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;berating David Kirby&lt;/a&gt; for being a traitor to the anti-vaccine cause. Kirby’s crime was to defend &lt;i&gt;Neurodiversity&lt;/i&gt; blogger Kathleen Seidel’s right to freedom of speech when Seidel was &lt;a href=&quot;http://overlawyered.com/2008/04/vaccine-lawyer-subpoenas-kathleen-seidel/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;served with a nuisance subpoena&lt;/a&gt; by a notorious US anti-vaccine lawyer (more on the Seidel subpoena and its aftermath &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/157&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;). 

I completely agree with &lt;b&gt;Helen Parnell-Berry&lt;/b&gt; about the struggles health workers face in trying to deal with this stuff. One of the things you learn teaching in a medical school, and hanging around with people who work in healthcare, is just how much knowledge, experience and skill goes into giving people the key messages and important information in a comprehensible form. But peoples’ susceptibility to the “Aha! Here’s what the doctors aren’t telling you!” line is a real worry.  

I was just talking about this earlier this week with an ex-PhD student of ours who is now a Principal Clinical Biochemist (complete with MRCPath) at a hospital in Northern Ireland. We were contrasting the information on NHS and charity health information sites with the “random internet trawl” stuff. The mainline website stuff often &lt;i&gt;looks&lt;/i&gt; simple but in fact reflects production via tens to hundreds of person-hours of data synthesis, fact-chasing, writing, checking by groups of scrutineers and experts, re-writing, etc etc.   …While the sort of info on sites produced by one-man conspiracy obsessives like the chap who runs &lt;strong&gt;whale.to&lt;/strong&gt; looks full of fascinating detail, but in fact is garbled and misleading claptrap, often incorrect and almost always wholly out of context. 

Complex does not mean &quot;informed&quot;, and simple does not mean &quot;glossed over&quot;. This comes back in a way to the “tacit knowledge” of experts that we talked about &lt;a href=&quot;http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/experts-hired-lackeys-moon-made-of-cream-cheese/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a few posts ago&lt;/a&gt;.

Finally, thanks to &lt;b&gt;dvnutrix&lt;/b&gt; for passing on the Eric Fombonne story. It highlights once again how difficult it is to draw conclusions from anecdotes, especially in the case of things like child development where there is a vast variation in developmental rates in both normal and “abnormal” settings. The message once again: &lt;a href=&quot;http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=855&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;proper trials are the only way to tell&lt;/a&gt; whether interventions work, and if they don’t work in the proper trials, then anecdotes about secretin, chelation, methyl-B12, omega-3 fish oils and weird diets are just that – anecdotes.

Or to repeat (again) one of my favourite scientific maxims:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;The first principle [of scientific integrity] is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.”&lt;/b&gt;   - Richard P. Feynman&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks all for the kind comments. And special thanks to <b>Rob Hinkley</b> for the link to his excellent first-hand report of the Kirby UK visitation. </p>
<p>I think those of us in the UK should be thankful our Kirby-tation was so low key. As a contrast, check out <a href="//acandidworld.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/vaccineautism-alarmists-on-the-march-nyu-law/" rel="nofollow">this thread</a>, where a US law student blogger made some comments about Kirby being invited to appear at his (New York University) Law School later this month. All the anti-vaccine gang show up like a flock of vultures, including Clifford G. Miller, John Stone and American “daily chelation for everything!” uber-nutcase John Best Jr. The rabid-ness of this lot never ceases to amaze me. One of the minor delights of the thread, for seasoned anti-vaccine-loony watchers, is to see John Best Jr <a href="http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/vaccineautism-alarmists-on-the-march-nyu-law/#comment-892" rel="nofollow">berating David Kirby</a> for being a traitor to the anti-vaccine cause. Kirby’s crime was to defend <i>Neurodiversity</i> blogger Kathleen Seidel’s right to freedom of speech when Seidel was <a href="http://overlawyered.com/2008/04/vaccine-lawyer-subpoenas-kathleen-seidel/" rel="nofollow">served with a nuisance subpoena</a> by a notorious US anti-vaccine lawyer (more on the Seidel subpoena and its aftermath <a href="http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/157" rel="nofollow">here</a>). </p>
<p>I completely agree with <b>Helen Parnell-Berry</b> about the struggles health workers face in trying to deal with this stuff. One of the things you learn teaching in a medical school, and hanging around with people who work in healthcare, is just how much knowledge, experience and skill goes into giving people the key messages and important information in a comprehensible form. But peoples’ susceptibility to the “Aha! Here’s what the doctors aren’t telling you!” line is a real worry.  </p>
<p>I was just talking about this earlier this week with an ex-PhD student of ours who is now a Principal Clinical Biochemist (complete with MRCPath) at a hospital in Northern Ireland. We were contrasting the information on NHS and charity health information sites with the “random internet trawl” stuff. The mainline website stuff often <i>looks</i> simple but in fact reflects production via tens to hundreds of person-hours of data synthesis, fact-chasing, writing, checking by groups of scrutineers and experts, re-writing, etc etc.   …While the sort of info on sites produced by one-man conspiracy obsessives like the chap who runs <strong>whale.to</strong> looks full of fascinating detail, but in fact is garbled and misleading claptrap, often incorrect and almost always wholly out of context. </p>
<p>Complex does not mean &#8220;informed&#8221;, and simple does not mean &#8220;glossed over&#8221;. This comes back in a way to the “tacit knowledge” of experts that we talked about <a href="http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/experts-hired-lackeys-moon-made-of-cream-cheese/" rel="nofollow">a few posts ago</a>.</p>
<p>Finally, thanks to <b>dvnutrix</b> for passing on the Eric Fombonne story. It highlights once again how difficult it is to draw conclusions from anecdotes, especially in the case of things like child development where there is a vast variation in developmental rates in both normal and “abnormal” settings. The message once again: <a href="http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=855" rel="nofollow">proper trials are the only way to tell</a> whether interventions work, and if they don’t work in the proper trials, then anecdotes about secretin, chelation, methyl-B12, omega-3 fish oils and weird diets are just that – anecdotes.</p>
<p>Or to repeat (again) one of my favourite scientific maxims:</p>
<blockquote><p><b>&#8220;The first principle [of scientific integrity] is that you must not fool yourself &#8211; and you are the easiest person to fool.”</b>   &#8211; Richard P. Feynman</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: rattitude</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>rattitude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-461</guid>
		<description>It is unfortunately (for the rest of us) not a problem limited to the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unfortunately (for the rest of us) not a problem limited to the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen Parnell-Berry</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen Parnell-Berry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-460</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Practice Nurse. I find it very frustrating when parents read articles in the press, particularly news papers such as The Telegraph. They believe every word. Everything we do has to be evidence based; we have to know how to read a research paper, understand it and decide whether the research is valid or not. I don&#039;t believe that the average journalist at the Telegraph, The Times much less the Daily Mail, have that skill. It really beggars belief that given we, as nurses and doctors, DO have this skill, the absolute drivel written by a bunch of sensationalist half wits is taken as the absolute truth. But then......this is the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Practice Nurse. I find it very frustrating when parents read articles in the press, particularly news papers such as The Telegraph. They believe every word. Everything we do has to be evidence based; we have to know how to read a research paper, understand it and decide whether the research is valid or not. I don&#8217;t believe that the average journalist at the Telegraph, The Times much less the Daily Mail, have that skill. It really beggars belief that given we, as nurses and doctors, DO have this skill, the absolute drivel written by a bunch of sensationalist half wits is taken as the absolute truth. But then&#8230;&#8230;this is the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: The &#8220;toxins in vaccines&#8221; crowd are still with us &#171; Dr Aust&#8217;s Spleen</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>The &#8220;toxins in vaccines&#8221; crowd are still with us &#171; Dr Aust&#8217;s Spleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-458</guid>
		<description>[...] usual mercury /vaccines conspiracy crazies, and barely anyone at all at the House of Lords), click here and follow the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] usual mercury /vaccines conspiracy crazies, and barely anyone at all at the House of Lords), click here and follow the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-457</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. I will be back to read again

edit:  advertising link removed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. I will be back to read again</p>
<p>edit:  advertising link removed</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-453</guid>
		<description>As an antidote to various forms of fact-denying emotional certainty,I&#039;m eagerly awaiting delivery of this book, discussed here by its author:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/02/29/certainty/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an antidote to various forms of fact-denying emotional certainty,I&#8217;m eagerly awaiting delivery of this book, discussed here by its author:<br />
<a href="http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/02/29/certainty/" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/02/29/certainty/</a></p>
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		<title>By: pv</title>
		<link>http://draust.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/who-needs-facts-these-vaccine-conspiracy-pieces-write-themselves%e2%80%a6/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>pv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://draust.wordpress.com/?p=37#comment-442</guid>
		<description>So, Dr. Doreen Granpeesheh&#039;s reaction to Dr Aust is to issue a spam response extolling the virtues of her autism &quot;cure&quot;. That&#039;s typical of people who&#039;s science model is based on used-car sales techniques. Quacks and woosters are never ones to miss a sales opportunity.
Nice article Dr Aust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Dr. Doreen Granpeesheh&#8217;s reaction to Dr Aust is to issue a spam response extolling the virtues of her autism &#8220;cure&#8221;. That&#8217;s typical of people who&#8217;s science model is based on used-car sales techniques. Quacks and woosters are never ones to miss a sales opportunity.<br />
Nice article Dr Aust.</p>
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